citation from the public post at http://bluecollarrepublican.com/rades/viewtopic.php?t=47&start=15:
I have not seen any evidence of invisibility by the way (not for these four planes anyways). The 84 RADES system is limited to the national border areas. For the interior of the country we need the data from the FAA system. The USAF is only reporting on their data set.
I would have to await the FAA (multiple ignored FOIA requests) data before I could even begin to explore such an issue.



Hi BCR,

I was long hesitating if to quote your invisibility issue answer or not. First because I suppose that if the following would be posted to the public internet forum about 9/11 Radar data I bet the chances to obtain the FAA data would then significantly diminish; second because I'm not sure if it has a sense to post the serious cuonterarguments to somebody, who "have not seen any evidence of invisibility by the way" or is a suspect of the misleading (because your margin of error evaluations in the AA11 speed chart directly imply the negative speeds of the aircraft - as the author of the original AA11 speed chart pointed out) and thus suspect of the involvement in the cover-up or at least with a questionable credibility... (Please don't take it personaly, if it is not the case and it is just a consequence of the computation mistakes, but what one could think in such a delicate context as the 9/11 data, especially when you state you are the data evaluation proffesional?)

But at the end I concluded that you are maybe just oversceptical and I decided to post it to you via PM anyway and to inform this way also other colleagues they work on the Rades and 9/11 planes analysis in general.

Yes, there would be additional data needed to confirm the results, but I cannot imagine the data they could credibly dismiss the following - anyway, even in the 84Rades data set we have some puzzling (if I tell it using the very euphemism) problems with the radar visibility and not just that :

(all timestamps using the time as provided by Rades)

UA93 M3:1527
>13:40:03.105 allegedly switches the transponder off @MCaltitude 39600ft and range 105 nmi

>flyies at unknown altitude (FDR altitude - the people from P4T have it, me not at the time.)

>disappears from DTW radar after 13:47:07.300 at range 158 nmi, even there are planes far behind visible to DTW up to range 199.5nmi (and doesn't appear at PLA even the planes behind at range up to 198nmi are visible to PLA)

>13:47:15.190 for one blip appears at DAN @ range 181nmi and disappears again, even the planes behind up to 199nmi are visible to DAN) - this blip is ommited by the USAF derived rs3 projects

>14:01:09.030 reappears on PLA radar in range 97 nmi (even the planes far behind up to 198nmi are visible to PLA and even GIB ARSR-4 up to range 234 nmi) - here is clearly visible the "ommission" tampering with the data, because this blip - and the blip 14:01:32:820 - at all don't appear in the RADES "All 4 incident Aircraft - Shows all 4 aircraft tracks" project, nor are booth highligted in "All data in Pitts. Area - All radar data in the area with Pitts. Incident Aircraft" project. Moreover - the distance traveled during the "invisibility" period implies the average speed at least 420mph - if the plane would fly absolutely straight (which one couldn't expect, because the initial course differs from the course while the plane reappears) - the speed which is above the B757 Vmo for altitude below the cruissing altitude and definitely for the probable below 20000ft altitude at the reappearance moment.
But most important and extremely suspicious thing (that I put it in the separate paragraph) is there are two PLA blips in the data they couldn't be there if there were not two separate objects in the air: the blips 14:01:44.740 and 14:01:44.755 - timestamp difference only 0.015s, - two objects distant 2 miles detected during one radar sweep!!

>flyies at unknown altitude (FDR altitude - the people from P4T have it, me not at the time.)

>14:02:20.370 switches the transponder on at range 92 nmi, transpondes MCaltitude 7800

>last blip 14:02:32.225 at MCaltitude 6100

The end of the "UA93" journey as it appears in the radar data rise realy very serious questions - if we moreover consider the apparent and almost surely intentional USAF ommision tampering with the data, trying most probably conceal the additional evidence of two separate flying objects - it implies either the shotdown of "UA93" (given the distance of the two blips - about 2 miles it couldn't be one object), or a plane launched missile fired to stage "UA93" crash.

The radar invisibility period cannot be explained using the "lack of the radars available", because there are multiple radars (PLA and DAN) in the area they should be capable to see the plane during the period. Period!



AA77 M3:3743
>takes off from Dulles, 12:22:07.780 becomes visible to GIB @MC 5200 range 136nmi

>12:25:01.065 becomes visible to OCA @MC12000 range 153nmi

>disappears from OCA 12:34:12.585 @height 24400, MC 29000, at range 198nmi

>disappears from GIB 12:39:44.550 @height 41200, MC 33000, range 249nmi

>allegedly switches transp. off and in the same moment disappears from PLA after 12:50:38.660 @MC 35000 in range 199 nmi
(to this point everything seems to be OK given the maximum ranges of the radars)

>flyies at unknown altitude (FDR altitude [with the 25s correction] - 12:50:38.660 >34989ft - 13:09:29.990 >23117ft - according FDR never goes below 23000ft during the period)

>reapears at PLA radar 13:09:29.990 in range 147 nmi (even the planes behind at range up to 198nmi are visible at PLA)

>flyies at unknown altitude (FDR altitude [with the 25s correction] - 13:09:29.990 >23117ft - 13:16:12.455 >25257ft- according FDR never goes below 22000ft during the period and almost all the time is at 25000+ft)

>reappears at OCA 13:16:12.455 @height 29600 at range 202nmi (even the planes behind are visible at OCA up to range 222nmi)

>FDR altitude [with the 25s correction] - 13:16:12.455 >25257ft - 13:21:07.700 >25212ft- according FDR flyies at 25000+ft during the period)

>reappears at GIB 13:21:07.700 @height 102000 (error?) range 196nmi (even the planes behind are visible to GIB up to 248nmi)

>FDR altitude during the period [with the 25s correction] - 13:21:07.700 >25257ft - 13:24:55.760 >15474ft)

>disappears after 13:24:55.760 from GIB again @height 23600 @range 168nmi (even the planes behind are visible to GIB up to 220nmi - FDR altitude [with the 25.3s correction] >15474ft)

>disappears again from OCA 13:26:36.705 @height 14400 range 145.5nmi (even the planes behind are visible at OCA up to range 215nmi and even the planes around at simmilar height are visible booth to OCA and GIB - FDR altitude [with the 25.3s correction] = 11315ft)

>13:33:19.515 (when starting to make the final turn) reappears at GIB @height 102000 (error?) @range 119.5nmi - FDR altitude [with the 25.3s correction] = 8484ft


>GIB 13:34:31.430 shows height 10000 - FDR altitude [with the 25.3s correction] = 6574ft

>13:34:43.335 disappears from GIB again @height 102000 (error?) range 117nmi - FDR altitude [with the 25.3s correction] = 5922ft

The GIB and OCA radar invisibility period cannot be explained using the "lack of the radars available", because the radars GIB and OCA booth should be capable to see the plane during the period. Period!

{There are also the serious visibility issues with radar height read errors in case of the "AA11" and "UA175", but I'll not discuss it here for now.}

Anyway we have there even in this 84Rades data set multiple serious problems with the radar visibility - the evidences for it, if you want - and apparently also a realy serious suspicion of deliberate tampering on the side of 84Rades.

I would be glad if you would comment on this. I leave it on you if via PM or publicly.